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 Cubs, Cardinals 4 Game Series

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STUN.Ryan
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PostSubject: Cubs, Cardinals 4 Game Series   Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:50 pm

Any baseball fans in the midwest know how much is riding on this series. A sweep by either team could completely demoralize the other. The Cardinals sit just 2.5 games out of first and 2 away from the Cubs. A sweep would probably end the Cardinals chances of really being able to take first. A sweep by the Cardinals would probably take the life out of the Cubs and before you know it, they finish 4th in the division.

Most likely, a sweep isn't going to happen, especially in a four game set. My prediction is the Cubs will take 3 out of 4 due to the pitching matchups I see. Zambrano has struggled and there's no better remedy than playing St. Louis whom he has an ERA under 2 lifetime against. These are the series I remember more than any other from each baseball season. A Cardinals fan may not remember them as well since they get a bit more playoff time, but fans of both are always geared up for this series. CPH and I have gotten in numerous fights as kids watching this series unfold along with some of the dumbest arguements ever like who is cooler? Pedro Guerrero or Mark Grace? The funny thing is I can't think of one time when we ever talked bad about the other friend's favorite player. It was like some weird unspoken rule that we drew a line at. Plus I think we both envisioned what it'd be like if those two were on the same team turning double plays (Sandberg and Ozzie).

Anyway I'm rambling and looking forward to a now meaningful Cubs-Cardinals series.
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PostSubject: Re: Cubs, Cardinals 4 Game Series   Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:58 pm

Ryan Simmons wrote:
CPH and I have gotten in numerous fights as kids watching this series unfold along with some of the dumbest arguements ever like who is cooler? Pedro Guerrero or Mark Grace?

lol!

In hindsight, Grace got way more out of his talent than Guerrero. And I think we both knew what a low blow it would have been to make fun of Ozzie or Sandberg when we were kids. We both would prefer jokes about our mothers, I think. It's interesting that both those guys have turned out to be two of the "good guys" in sports though.

I will say that I'm a 162-game watcher/follower of the Cardinals whether they're in a race or not but two things get me especially worked up: (1) obviously playing in the playoffs, there's nothing more exciting than playoff baseball and (2) playing the Cubs. Add the Cubs into a mix where there's actually a chance to make ground in the divison to make the playoffs and it's even more intense. It is always fun when these two teams play though...at Wrigley, it's the only time where half the crowd is in red and at Busch, the only time where some of the crowd is in blue. The rivalry seems to be a fight not just between who wins the game but which fan base is better. Cubs fans will constantly point out staying with their team through World Series-less years and brag about Wrigley and Cardinal fans take pride in having been called the best fans in the game numerous times and filling up a 45,000 plus stadium seemingly with everyone in red every night despite the much smaller pop. of St. Louis compared to a Chicago or New York. The truth is both teams have unbelievable support and both teams can travel anywhere and have fans of their own whether it's in Los Angeles or New York. The attendance for each team is always among the top in the league every season. The losses against the Cubs kick my ass more than a loss against the Giants most of the time and the wins kinda feel like playoff wins...probably because the atmosphere is playoff-like. It's unlike Red Sox-Yankees, there's less talk about how much we hate the players on the other teams (for the most part) and more comparing Ryan Ludwick to Mike Fontenot.

The Cards have been getting outstanding starting pitching lately and things are happening for them instead of against them so hopefully they can keep riding that momentum and take 3 of 4 at least. I would settle for a series tie though. Stay close and then have that 4 game series at Busch in mid-September.
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PostSubject: Re: Cubs, Cardinals 4 Game Series   Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:17 pm

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there's nothing more exciting than playoff baseball

Nothing except playoff (enter any sport besides baseball here). Very Happy

One thing I will give baseball a tremendous amount of credit for, they get their playoffs done. And I don't mean that in a "thank god it's finally over" kind of way either. I mean it in a "thank god I don't have to wait four days to find out how game 2 is going to shake out" kind of way. They play back-to-back games, just like they do in the regular season and get their playoffs finished in a reasonable amount of time. Not like the NBA where the playoffs extend the season another two months; not because there are lots and lots of games to get through, but because they space each game three days apart. So a seven game series could take two and a half weeks, where in baseball a seven game series takes what, ten?

As you all know I am not a baseball fan so I really don't care about the playoffs unless the Cubs are playing in them (still got the fingers crossed on that by the way). But as a sports fan I am very interested in how things happen and who wins and thanks to baseball getting through the playoffs in a reasonable amount of time, I can find out sooner who wins. And because it happens in the time frame it does, I'm still interested in finding out. With basketball, I lost almost all interest in the game by the time the Finals roll around because it's taken so damn long to get there.

That being said, I will be watching this series closely and think my Cubbies will take three out of four. The Cubs have gotten the better of St. Louis over the last couple of years and I look for that to continue this weekend.
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PostSubject: Re: Cubs, Cardinals 4 Game Series   Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:03 am

You're not a baseball fan but you ARE a Cubs fan...

You people use interesting logic. For another example, there's this guy I play softball with in a league and he quit the team recently. Why? Because we were losing too much...which is true. However, my response was "geez, you're a Cubs fan, shouldn't you be used to all this losing by now if not getting off on it cos it's happened so much? I mean, you must be some sort of masochist, right?"

He didn't exactly like that or see much humor in it. But what a quitter.

Our biggest problem is our team jerseys are yellow...I lost track of what the subject was I think.
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PostSubject: Re: Cubs, Cardinals 4 Game Series   Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:17 am

Quote :
You're not a baseball fan but you ARE a Cubs fan...

You people use interesting logic.
You're going to find that logic around here a lot. :)

I'm not a baseball fan either, but I am a Reds fan. I find the sport of baseball in and of itself to be terribly dull. But I can sit through and enjoy a Reds game because I am, to an extent, invested in the outcome. My best friend, in contrast, goes to three times the Reds games I do in the average season, despite the fact that he was born with an Orioles cap on his head. He loves baseball that much. It's still baseball, no matter who's playing. (Which, incidentally, is how most of us here feel about football.)

So to me, that statement makes a world of sense. It is possible to love a team and not be nuts about the sport they play. It's a strange dichotomy, but it exists.
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PostSubject: Re: Cubs, Cardinals 4 Game Series   Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:25 am

I'll be honest, I don't understand their logic either. Its one thing if I'm told, I'm not an MLB fan but a Cubs fan. But when you say you don't like the game of baseball, but then you can invest an interest of a team that plays a sport you find boring, it makes no sense to me at all. They both have to somewhat like the game or not hate it. Otherwise, Larry would be a "fan" of the Chicago Fire, but not soccer. I have a hard time getting it. scratch

I understand not being a fan of MLB and not wanting to watch Tigers and Royals.
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PostSubject: Re: Cubs, Cardinals 4 Game Series   Sat Aug 18, 2007 2:52 am

No, Larry wouldn't be a fan of the Chicago Fire or the Blackhawks or the White Sox or the Rush or any other Chicago team for that matter.

As I stated in my solo show when I spent twenty minutes talking about why I hate the game, I have trouble watching the Cubs play on TV because I do find the game of baseball so boring. Let alone a couple of teams I could give a damn about. I have trouble watching the teams I support on television because the game puts me to sleep most of the time.

Like right now, they are playing the Cardinals on TV and I could really care less about watching it, but I'll be thrilled to hear if they won, because they are my team. On the outside I can see how it wouldn't make much sense to love a team that plays a game I can't stand, but it makes perfect sense to me and that's all that matters. Especially I could honestly give a rat's ass about the other 29 teams in MLB.

But you're right I am not a baseball fan, but I AM a Cubs fan.

And I always will be.
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PostSubject: Re: Cubs, Cardinals 4 Game Series   Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:17 am

Damn it Dyer, listen..err read.

No one is questioning why you hate the game. We've heard the argument why you hate baseball and thats fine. We all have different tastes.


We're questioning why you have "a team" in a sport you "hate." The fact that you just admitted you could care less watching the Cubs play the Cardinals actually just hurt a little over here being a Cubs fan that's been through the good and the bad with this team. I thought you cared more than that. It makes it much harder to want to enjoy any success this team has for someone that "could care less about watching them play the Cardinals." That was a pretty disappointing statement.

I think I need reasons why they are "your team." I have a hard time seeing any substance in an argument stating you actually are a Cubs fan when you could care less about watching Cubs vs. Cardinals...

Here's the best way to get you inside the head of Justin or I. I can't imagine how you would react if the roles were reversed and someone said the Bears are "My Team" but I could care less they are playing the Packers for a shot at the division lead right now. You would TOTALLY tell that person you can't call them your team. you would CRINGE hearing something like that. I know you too well when it comes to the Bears. You would not allow that and would probably be more passioante about that person not saying the "bears are their team" more than CPH and I are confused about you saying the Cubs are your team. Again, we both understand you don't like baseball. To me, to say that they are "your team" you should care about seeing one of their biggest series of the entire year. I understand not being an MLB fan. I get that.
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PostSubject: Re: Cubs, Cardinals 4 Game Series   Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:26 am

Alright...tried to cool off and read Dyer's comments here..but I can not get over this

Quote :
Like right now, they are playing the Cardinals on TV and I could really care less about watching it

I mean, are you freaking serious? Again, I've got to use that Bears analogy. I could just see how perplexed and possibly pissed you'd be at someone stating that the Bears are "My Team" and blow off the chance to watch Packers - Bears with first place within grasp.
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PostSubject: Re: Cubs, Cardinals 4 Game Series   Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:10 am

I guess I will weigh in with my thoughts.

I could see having a team but generally not watching the sport too often. I would say my team in hockey is the Blackhawks, however, I usually stop watching 1/4 way through the season when they become mathematically out of a playoff run.

With that being said, if I was not a big fan of baseball and the cubs were still the team I follow when they are doing good (God strike me with lighting if I ever become a cubs fan); this would be the perfect time to become interested.

Now, I am a baseball fan and love to watch all baseball games, although I do not find the central very interesting right now because well it not like we have a couple good teams vying for the lead, its a pretty sad division.
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PostSubject: Re: Cubs, Cardinals 4 Game Series   Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:37 am

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Nothing except playoff (enter any sport besides baseball here).
Tee-hee.

I'm not a fan of the Cardinals... call me an "interested party". Couldn't give a crap about watching any games, but my dad is a huge St Louis sports fan. It's nice to hear when they're doing well cause I know he's happy. Similar to D, I enjoy hearing that they've won (he said "thrilled", that's a bit much). Other than that... piss on it.

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Damn it Dyer, listen
Delicious. You two keep at it. I'll warm up some popcorn.
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PostSubject: Re: Cubs, Cardinals 4 Game Series   Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:23 pm

You know something, I just spent the better part of the last hour typing out an explanation that would help me "get inside Ryan and Justin's heads." It was well written (in my opinion anyway) and well thought out. And right before I was gonna post it, I read it again to make sure I said everything I wanted to say and made myself clear.....again. And as I read it, I started getting angry because I was certain that what I was saying would get them back to head scratching and questioning me over this all over again.

And then a sense of calm came over me and I deleted my very long rebuttal without a moments pause.

I explained my position on this matter already. Feel free to read it as many times as you need to until it makes sense to you. I'm done trying to help you figure it out. For someone who says he knows me, it shouldn't be too hard to figure out what I mean.

So good luck with that, cause I'm out.
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PostSubject: Re: Cubs, Cardinals 4 Game Series   Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:05 pm

Larry D wrote:


Like right now, they are playing the Cardinals on TV and I could really care less about watching it, but I'll be thrilled to hear if they won, because they are my team.

But you're right I am not a baseball fan, but I AM a Cubs fan.

Yeah I would understand if you said "I don't like the way MLB has handled things" but you're saying you actually don't even like the game itself, which means there is no reason for you to watch it I guess. However, you are one of those fans that say "I'm right behind the Cubs if they win", you would be "thrilled" if they won and therefore wearing a World Series Champions: Chicago Cubs shirt if that actually happened I would bet. Sounds kinda like a fairweather fan to me. I say "kinda" because most fairweather fans would still have some appreciation for the game their team is in...

So if you aren't a baseball fan, but you are a Cubs fan...that means I guess that you just really appreciate the team colors, stadium, vendors, 1920-style bathrooms at Wrigley, or you just like new born bears...are you a fan of wildlife? That was a joke.

It would be like you having to take a test but you don't study yet if you did well you'd be really happy with that. You want the result but you want no risking of putting anything into it because it's a subject you "hate".

I mean there are things that are harder than putting your support behind a team, but I hate it when the Cardinals lose, love it when they win, and I love watching the game. But I know I'm in the minority when I say it's my favorite sport. I mean I was born with a Cardinals hat on my head, no literally...they don't know how it happened.

BTW, that was a great game yesterday even though the outcome was bad for me. I'll take a 2-1 game wih 4 hits for each team anyday. Looper just made one mistake and it cost the game. That's why I love this game, though.
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PostSubject: Re: Cubs, Cardinals 4 Game Series   Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:04 am

Larry, what's there to be angry about? We just don't get it. We can't seem to find any logic in it. No reason to be angry and throw your hands up. I've heard your explanation before but I still don't understand how you can say a team is "your team" and not care to watch them in the biggest series of the year. I don't get it. I think meathorse commenting on "thrilled" might be a bit too much just further complicates me understanding any of it. I thought I had it figured out until your recent comments about this cubs cardinals series. I had it...and then that was said, and now I'm back at square one. Where's bob wiley? He was the on all passionate against Larry on this.
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PostSubject: Re: Cubs, Cardinals 4 Game Series   Sun Aug 19, 2007 11:33 pm

Back to the actual games: Reyes had no control until a grand slam was hit off him. Pujols was obviously safe but that's how it goes sometimes. The Cubs can be happy about giving up four home runs in this series and all of them have been solo shots. That's the biggest difference right there.

The first two games are obviously making things real nice for Chicago. I swear though with a team led by players like Pujols, Eckstein and Rolen, I wouldn't be surprised if the Cards won the next 2. Eckstein and Pujols in particular, the Cardinals could be 25 games under and they'd be talking about how they'll win the next game. It's unbelievable. Big Z is gonna be emotional tonight...I wonder how long he'll go before the Cards get in his head and he gets himself thrown out? If I were Edmonds, my first at-bat against Big Z, I'd wink at him. BOY, that would be funny.

Good games though.
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